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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on January 22, 2013 at 4:19

Zollistar I pretty much have the same issue, I can usually get back to sleep for a while though. When I wake up my head feels really clear now almost like I don't need anymore sleep. I don't get up I believe if I got up I definetly wouldn't go back to sleep so at least I am getting some rest. I refused to take prescription meds anymore as I was on them for so long before my SA was disgnosed, I now take either Valerian or Kava which are naturally herbs, I don't really think they work that much. I am glad to be getting as much sleep as I can now as I used to only get 1-2 hours non quality sleep prior, sorry I don't have an actual answer but will be interested in others opinions.

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Permalink Reply by Kath Hope on January 22, 2013 at 12:45

This doesn't happen normally to me, but when it does I do either one of two things...

1. Lay there relaxed without worrying, knowing that I will eventually nod off again.  Worrying is the worst thing (I learnt years ago) and gets us into a repeated pattern, like people with insomnia have to deal with.
2. (This works best for me) - I put my lamp on and start reading as this takes my mind off everything and eventually I feel tired enough to sleep again.

I never go to bed until I'm tired, and if I'm ever suffering from daytime tiredness I try not to nap (unlike the days before CPAP where I had to nap most days).

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Permalink Reply by ZolliStar on January 23, 2013 at 2:28

Thank you for this suggestion. I've started drinking chamomile tea (very small amount of water steeped for ten minutes in boiling water: I also want to avoid bathroom wake-ups) at night. But maybe I should include Valerian and/or Kava. Thanks for the suggestion.

Terry Vella said:

Zollistar I pretty much have the same issue, I can usually get back to sleep for a while though. When I wake up my head feels really clear now almost like I don't need anymore sleep. I don't get up I believe if I got up I definetly wouldn't go back to sleep so at least I am getting some rest. I refused to take prescription meds anymore as I was on them for so long before my SA was disgnosed, I now take either Valerian or Kava which are naturally herbs, I don't really think they work that much. I am glad to be getting as much sleep as I can now as I used to only get 1-2 hours non quality sleep prior, sorry I don't have an actual answer but will be interested in others opinions.

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Permalink Reply by ZolliStar on January 23, 2013 at 2:34

     I think I'm best off lying in bed relaxed and expecting to nod off again. I find that if I start reading, I tend to stay awake for hours reading.

     I do think it's best to get out of bed if I can't sleep. I sometimes sit in my rocking chair with candlelight saying my prayers and/or meditating. Candlelight is less likely to be wakeful. Indeed, I suspect that, because of the spectrum, light from reading tends to keep me awake even if I'm tired.

Kath Hope said:

This doesn't happen normally to me, but when it does I do either one of two things...

1. Lay there relaxed without worrying, knowing that I will eventually nod off again.  Worrying is the worst thing (I learnt years ago) and gets us into a repeated pattern, like people with insomnia have to deal with.
2. (This works best for me) - I put my lamp on and start reading as this takes my mind off everything and eventually I feel tired enough to sleep again.

I never go to bed until I'm tired, and if I'm ever suffering from daytime tiredness I try not to nap (unlike the days before CPAP where I had to nap most days).

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on January 23, 2013 at 2:51

Zollistar, I aslo drink Chamomiletea, not sure if anything really works that well or you have to keep trying mixtures, like Kath said, I used to lay awake most of the night before I was diagnosed. I hate prescription meds as I dont think anyone really knows what they do to out bodies or brain and you don't get real sleep anyway. 

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Permalink Reply by ZolliStar on January 23, 2013 at 2:54

   I absolutely agree about prescription meds. I sometimes take them -- desperation -- but I'm never happy about it when I do and you're absolutely right: the sleep isn't the same.

   I don't really like Chamomile but I've decided to try it for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference. Fingers crossed.

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Permalink Reply by Kath Hope on January 23, 2013 at 12:44

Yes, it's finding out what works best for you.  A lot of articles tell you to get out of bed and not lay there wishing sleep upon yourself, but that doesn't work for me.  As a child I discovered that if I read before trying to nod off, then the reading sent me to sleep.  Unfortunately, my mother didn't agree with me reading when I had to be up for school, so I saved my pocket money and bought a torch and used to read under the covers.  Problem with that is I used to fall asleep reading and the batteries used to run out, so I was forever replacing them

ZolliStar said:

     I think I'm best off lying in bed relaxed and expecting to nod off again. I find that if I start reading, I tend to stay awake for hours reading.

     I do think it's best to get out of bed if I can't sleep. I sometimes sit in my rocking chair with candlelight saying my prayers and/or meditating. Candlelight is less likely to be wakeful. Indeed, I suspect that, because of the spectrum, light from reading tends to keep me awake even if I'm tired.......

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Permalink Reply by Kath Hope on January 23, 2013 at 13:54

Five things that stop a good night’s sleep

Tossing, turning, can't get to sleep? It's a familiar feeling for many. Here are five things that could be preventing us from getting the restful night we need.

An uncomfortable or noisy environment

As we start to fall asleep, our muscle tone reduces and our limbs begin to relax. We may feel drowsy but our brain is still active, and any noise or discomfort can make it hard to fall asleep.

As we drift into light sleep, an area of the brain called the thalamus starts to block the flow of information from our senses to the rest of the brain. But it will still let through noises, which can wake us up.

After about half an hour of light sleep, most of us enter a type of deep sleep called slow-wave sleep. The changes in the brain neurochemistry typical of deep sleep, make it harder to be woken up. But some things will always get through - such as our names being called out loudly.

Missing out on any part of our usual cycle of sleep results in reduced quality and quantity of sleep.

An irregular routine

We all have a built-in body clock which tells us when we are tired, and helps synchronise thousands of cells in our body to the circadian rhythm.

The main synchroniser for our body clock is light. Our eyes react to the light and dark, even when our eyelids are closed.

Daylight prompts our brains to reduce the production of the sleep hormone melatonin. We become more alert, and wake up.

If we sleep less, because of going to bed late or waking up early, we're unlikely to get as much deep sleep as we need, or enough of the stage that comes after it - REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, when we do most of our dreaming.

Stimulants - coffee, alcohol, food

Stages of sleep

Sleep is essential to maintaining normal levels of cognitive skills such as speech, memory, and flexible thinking. Sleep plays a significant role in brain development.

Every 60-100 minutes we go through a cycle of four stages of sleep before entering dream sleep

• Stage 1 is a drowsy, relaxed state between being awake and sleeping
• Stage 2 is a period of light sleep where heart rate slows and body temperature decreases, getting ready for deep sleep
• Stage 3 and Stage 4, or deep sleep are hard to wake up from because there is the lowest amount of activity in your brain and body
• After deep sleep, we go back to Stage 2 and then enter dream sleep - also called REM (rapid eye movement) sleep

• Find your personal sleep profile
• The myth of the eight-hour sleep

Caffeine is a stimulant which can stay in our system for many hours. Drinks high in caffeine make it harder to fall asleep and can result in more time in the lighter stages of sleep, with less deep sleep.

Drinking alcohol often makes us snore more, making it harder to breathe, and so making us more restless.

Although alcohol initially helps some of us fall asleep, too much of it may disrupt sleep. A lot of alcohol close to bedtime means we can go straight into deep sleep, missing out on the usual first stage of sleep.

As the alcohol starts to wear off, our bodies come out of deep sleep and back into REM sleep, which is much easier to wake from.

In the course of a night we usually have six to seven cycles of REM sleep, which leaves us feeling refreshed. However, a night of drinking means we'll typically have only one to two, and wake up feeling exhausted.

Eating a large, heavy meal too close to bedtime may also interfere with sleep. Spicy or fatty foods can cause heartburn, which leads to difficulty in falling asleep and discomfort throughout the night.

Foods containing a chemical called tyramine (examples include bacon, cheese, nuts and red wine) can keep us awake at night.

Tyramine causes the release of noradrenaline, a brain stimulant. Carbohydrates, such as bread or pasta, have the opposite effect. They trigger the release of hormone serotonin, which makes us sleepy.

The wrong body temperature

Our core body temperature goes down when we sleep. It's controlled by our body clock, which starts to open up the blood vessels of the hands, face and feet, to lose heat, as we approach the time we should be sleeping.

But if our bedrooms or duvets are too warm, our bodies can't lose heat. That can lead to restlessness and discomfort.

Our core temperature should only be half a degree less than during the day. If we get too cold, we get restless.

A busy mind

Stress is the enemy of sleep. In bed, our mind is left free to wander, and feeling anxious about getting enough sleep will only make it worse.

In these states people lose track of time. You may nod off and wake up again but it may still feel as if you are getting no sleep at all. This can result in fragmented sleep with less time spent in the deep stages of sleep.

Sleep experts recommend getting up and doing an activity which distracts our mind from worry - such as a puzzle - before trying to sleep again.

Sources: Dr Chris Idzikowski, Director of the Edinburgh Sleep Centre, Professor Jim Horne, Director of the Loughborough University Sleep Research Centre, Dr Dev Banerjee, consultant sleep physician.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/0/20427553

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Permalink Reply by ZolliStar on January 25, 2013 at 0:13

Dear Friends,

 

Thank you for your advice and suggestions. I happened to read an article on Dr. Park's site (visit: www.doctorstevenpark.com) and it completely changed my understanding of the problem that I have and that possibly some of you have.

 

Article's title: "Why Do Some Insomniacs Keep Waking Up at the Same Time?"

 

Whilst I don't view myself as an insomniac since I have sleep apnea, the article was a revelation. It points out a different sleep disorder (and it's possible to have more than one) which I think is the problem for me: sleep maintenance insomnia. And, yes, I do seem to wake predictably after about three hours of sleep. FRUSTRATING!!!

 

You can go to Dr. Google and you'll read a number of articles on the subject. (Keywords: Sleep maintenance insomnia.) All of them have the same thing in common: Not much is known about how best to deal with the condition. (Sigh.)

 

That said, now that I know what the likely problem is, I'm going to try to figure out some approaches. Right now I'm thinking that I'll go to bed earlier than I usually do and when I awake three hours later, I won't fight it. I'll get up, and relax in my rocking chair, meditate, say my prayers, etc., etc.  My hope is that I'll become sleepy and be able to go back to sleep again by, say 4:00 am or even (God willing!) earlier. If so, I'll sleep three more hours. 

 

Is sleeping in "chunks" ideal? Obviously not, but it's a possible solution. I'll end up with about six hours of sleep  -- seven would be better -- and I'll have to alot eight or nine hours to get it. Still, I'll take what I can get. My goal is to function better. The "chunk sleep" approach might work BUT, as always, I'm open to suggestions, advice, and further recommendations. .

 

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on January 25, 2013 at 1:53

Zollistar, I hate the word insomnia, because it's really a symptom not an illness, you sound like what you are trying is the right thing, I think some of us are just hypo sensative to things. A cat walking past my front gate can wake me you so I do all the sleep hygiene things. I use earplugs, eyemask, have my room cool, queit as possible etc but some times still wake up. It'ss ok to sleep in chucks as long as we sleep, probably not ideal but better than nothing. I think the SA has made me more sensative to noise so hopefully over time things will get better. Another thing I am trying is using a defuser with Lavender in my room an hour or two before I go to bed. I have had problems with it because it's summer here in Australia and it is warming up my room so looking forward to our winter and see if that helps me. 

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Permalink Reply by Tricia Dickson on January 25, 2013 at 15:06

I get this too, and I do the same as Kath as it works for me too.

I'm now wondering if this could be a symptom of SA, since so many of us waken up in the middle of the night?!

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Permalink Reply by Will Clifford on January 28, 2013 at 19:52

I'm not convinced frustration is an adequate description. I go through phases of waking up at the same time.....to the minute. I've started to use Paul Mckenna's, I can teach you to sleep over the last few days. There's a trance audio track that I use to nod off to, not that I ever have a problem with this. It claims to be able to reprogram me to stay asleep. Fingers crossed he's as good as his word. I would love to do that, even just now and again.

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